[BETA] Hero Trials – Discussion and Feedback

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  • I'm no specialist but it really depends on what you need to fix.

    What rewards are you referring to? The apes? It was not adding apes that took a lot of time. It was the whole calculation and planning of all possible solutions. And once it was done, a complete review of all quests and their impact had to be done too.
  • Galeas wrote:

    It was the whole calculation and planning of all possible solutions
    Which, in return, took almost half a year (from May to October?) to conclude in a half-done solution?

    What I was trying to say - either way you look at it, priorities seems skewed, as well as customer empathy.

    I'm aware and I fully understand that planning stuff is sometimes the bigger part of the issue. But at the same time, I don't understand why the team couldn't adapt the Hero Quests to 5.6 content so it can't be cheesed and/or abused - and give out tradeable APES instead, to make it balanced. I don't understand either why suggestions have been gathered since May - and only after a huge community outcry the "solution" to the issue came with old content in a buggy and exploitable system, even after the community warned against it.

    It just seems like someone doesn't bother much for the game - his or her product, sees players leaving, and concludes higher shop prices are necessary to make up for the loss.

    Someone isn't looking at the root of the cause. And he or she is making decisions for AION which in no shape or form look like they have the longevity of the game in mind.

    We players still care deeply for the game.
  • A few things to add:

    The feeling that 9 untradable APES for 21 days of badly designed HQs were "sufficient" is mostly because of this bug. Expect the community to be a little bit less satisfied, again.

    And what you are telling us about planning means one of two things:

    You have been gathering solutions since May, and with all your calculations and whatnot, you came up with a horrible solution, this cannot be stressed enough, after half a year.
    OR you haven't been doing anything regarding the APES and manastone situation apart from sitting on your hands since May, up until the community uproar in September, and thus had to look for a "fast" solution.

    Either way, it's pretty bad.

    Really, there is NO EXCUSE for this. You've had all the knowledge and suggestions since May. Someone just didn't care enough to lift a single finger.
  • Galeas wrote:

    I'm no specialist but it really depends on what you need to fix.

    What rewards are you referring to? The apes? It was not adding apes that took a lot of time. It was the whole calculation and planning of all possible solutions. And once it was done, a complete review of all quests and their impact had to be done too.
    Feelsss soooo good to be back on this AMAZING over the TOP forum.Galeas DO TELL ME the logic of 3 MONTHS BUGS not getting fixed and bugs of 2 weeks GETTING insta FIX ,please oh please dont give me that nyerk answer of depends on what u need to fix,cause the community already seen how the company you work for is,how pathetic can it be.
  • I dont really see why you guys keep bothering about this game any more.
    Why dont you UNDERSTAND that here you will never gonna get what players want
    It's every think about the money here. I so suprise that you people keep donating money at this company that give 0 ---ks about players?! It's so clear !!
    You just keep speding preciouse time fro your life playing a game that is broken since 3 years ago.
    They only way to do something " that i dont belive ppl will do , either GF to care about " it's just simply quit the game and telling GF that players will be back when things go right !
    WAKE UP!
  • Click wrote:

    @Galeas Gameforge thinks that 9 UNTRADEABLE APES in 21 days is a proper solution? Impressive calculation, I would like to see the sheets of that with the different factors. Or was it a dice the guys were rolling? Sounds more like it.
    they have to learn math again because with their calculations they killed the game.
  • The increased rewards in the hero trials were to balance out the luna nerf which had a 25% chance of getting an all-powerful stone from S-rank in daily luna. Statistically speaking you had a chance for -5,25- All-powerful stones in the same time period as the hero trials, but now you atleast know you'll get the 9 apes if you complete the quests/tasks, unlike luna which was a % which means 'a chance for' (I recall days where I got one each day, and a time period where I didn't get a single one for a week). An almost doubling of APE's, for doing things most people tend to do anyway (except the priests) seems quite reasonable to me. Especially since I did end up getting a few serums and tradable APE's on top of it while actually spamming the instances instead of bug abusing.

    I don't quite get the "old content" comment since I didn't see many people complaining about being 'forced' to do luna after 5.6 to get a lot of APE's, even though it was just as old as arkhal etc.

    As for fixing the bug to prevent people from bug abusing. Due to all-powerfuls being in the rewards and the bug exploit being shared with many more people, I imagine the priority count on the bug must have gone up, which is how things go in most businesses: some things have priority over other things.

    And about collecting/calculating: The nerf was in the beginning of August and the Hero trials were updated in the middle of October.
    NEW FORUM HERE: forum.aion.gameforge.com/
  • Soon You will get untradable ITEMS (you will need them to play the game) and 9 apes per month (maybe, work/rl life/other stuff), if you find time to do hero trial.

    But dont worry people, Gmeforge aka GivemeyourmoneyCompany working on good solution, propably they will nerf more stuff in future, more BETA fix inc.

    Players need more sources of getting APES / HUS but you clearly cant see that or dont want to...
    And implementing simply solution as pink quest, its not hard right?

    1. Rewards for pve, instances etc. (for pve players); Kill Piton 3 times = apes or hus
    2. Rewards for pvp, pvp instances, kills, sieges, or just open world fun (for pvp players); Defeat 50/100 players / Won 3 pvp instance = ....

    That not complicated right?
  • They will never do it , and by the way if I miss the days that give apes well I have to wait next month maybe my boss will say work til 2 because you have to go home and play Aion to make fast here test ... if you want at least put all togheter in quest and give free time to everyone when to make it , you almoust force me to play or maybe to give up my work for apes . If you want solution there are many but better don’t ask anyway nobody care about . We have to play this game for fun and to relax if you will still make for us a program pls tell us what salary you will give and we quit our job and we stay home to play Aion
  • @Senpai
    Yeah well, if you have a single character 3 apes a week might be more than what you got from luna.
    But we ran it on multiple chars, and used them for our mains.
    Now we've been effectively cut off from that option, so we get a lot less apes in given time period.

    I have only 5 chars i play, but believe me when i say, i most certainly won't go and kill 3 priests on each of them.
    Nor i will run 5 arkhals, 5 loks, 5 ToC, and i most definitely won't f**** kill 200 asmo.
    This is almost as dumb as putting SB on sunday 9pm.

    Some people have a life besides aion, and luna was helping these people catching up.
    But that's a no go for GF, because the shop isn't involved.
    And that's exactly why it was nerfed so fast. And why the bug fixed again so fast.
    The sole reason they haven't touched the level reduction stones is because their rate is lower than those in the shop.
    And if i had a guess the same stands for ape. But with 5.6 you still get 100% chance by using it with supps.
    Hence they couldn't pull the same bull**** as with +10 feathers requiring tradeable apes.

    You and galeas talk about calculations and whatnot.
    The manstones were nerfed fro 90 to 30 then later added 18 more with hero trials.
    That's still an almost 50% cut. Knowing GF the same logic applies to apes.
    Then we still didn't talk about serums. Which will be no longer "just" a pvp necessity, but pve as well.
  • Senpai wrote:

    [...] which had a 25% chance of getting an all-powerful stone from S-rank in daily luna. Statistically speaking you had a chance for -5,25- All-powerful stones in the same time period as the hero trials, but now you atleast know you'll get the 9 apes if you complete the quests/tasks, unlike luna which was a % which means 'a chance for'.
    That's right. IF you complete the quests. Did you count the time right, though?

    It takes 7 minutes to finish luna. With hero, it takes at least 10 minutes (xp quest) and up to 1 hour to get 1 apes guaranteed.

    Per character it is 5.25 apes per 21 days vs 9 apes per 21 days. If you look at it like that, hero quest is obviously superior.

    • Let's calculate time.



    To do S rank in luna takes 7 minutes. So 147 minutes to gain 5.25 apes in 21 days. Meanwhile in hero quests, average time to do one quest is 30 minutes (some quests take 10 minutes, others take 1 hour). ~270 minutes to gain 9 apes in 21 days. That's 1.8 more times than luna (before the nerf) to gain 3.75 more apes. For those 3.75 more apes it's 112 extra minutes. So around 157 minutes (total time 270 minus extra time 112 = 157 minutes for 5.25 apes) to gain the same amount of apes with luna. Result: Hero quests take overall 10 minutes more than luna (in theory) for the same amount of apes.

    Let's add the fact that you are able to do luna with characters lvl 10+ while hero quests require lvl 66 character. That means you could easily access your alts, whatever the lvl, and take that 25% chance for an apes. It's also not that tiring to do that every day. It's around 1 hour to complete all hell pass runs in 8 characters. Luna is obviously more accessible, convenient and rewards "more" apes in less amount of time. You can't S rank it by being afk unless you "hear rustling". Chances for that... around 5%? Currently the system is such that in case you're busy and can't make it for the hero quest you will have no apes at the end of the day when previously you could enter for 7 min, finish luna and take that 25% chance for a stone.
    That's with the 25% chance of course, since it's currently completely ruined. I'm at 4/110 apes from S rank bags.

    At the end, you could start farming apes since lvl 10 for just a few minutes of your time. That's now accessible only starting from lvl 66 and takes more time.

    Let's accept this system and move on already...
    "The Elyos and Asmodians were so busy fighting each other that they didn't see the danger coming..."
    - cue Big Nerf in 5.6
  • Click wrote:

    @Galeas Gameforge thinks that 9 UNTRADEABLE APES in 21 days is a proper solution? Impressive calculation, I would like to see the sheets of that with the different factors. Or was it a dice the guys were rolling? Sounds more like it.
    Yes 9 is more then enough, but you are probally un patience like most other ppl, why you want soo many apes? save them up then use its 100% now too, dont get why ppl still complain when GF have improved the game soo much.

    Balthazar wrote:

    Galeas wrote:

    I'm no specialist but it really depends on what you need to fix.

    What rewards are you referring to? The apes? It was not adding apes that took a lot of time. It was the whole calculation and planning of all possible solutions. And once it was done, a complete review of all quests and their impact had to be done too.
    Feelsss soooo good to be back on this AMAZING over the TOP forum.Galeas DO TELL ME the logic of 3 MONTHS BUGS not getting fixed and bugs of 2 weeks GETTING insta FIX ,please oh please dont give me that nyerk answer of depends on what u need to fix,cause the community already seen how the company you work for is,how pathetic can it be.
    If you dont know they need send those too korean NcSoft too get an fix for it, and GF do communicate very well with us here on forum you can see how Active galeas is even too many ppl is attacking him, he still come too give good answers thats how its supose too be so stop be so angry hole time.

    nodeone wrote:

    Click wrote:

    @Galeas Gameforge thinks that 9 UNTRADEABLE APES in 21 days is a proper solution? Impressive calculation, I would like to see the sheets of that with the different factors. Or was it a dice the guys were rolling? Sounds more like it.
    they have to learn math again because with their calculations they killed the game.
    Ppl say hole time they killed game, still game is here running and soo maany players around, so proves its not dead game or they killed it, they doing an great job and fix for us alot of things too improve the game quaality for us, so support them insteed of trowing out Words like that too an Company that actylu cares about us players and Community.
  • Unlike you, some people are still playing the game and not just trying to be a bad troll on the forum. You won’t be like Sirmi who quit the game and praised any actions Gameforge takes, nobody took you serious from the start anyways.
    Also I’m not *impatient, I’m fully geared, just thinking ahead to 5.8 patch and how far 9 apes in 21 days will bring me trying to +20 my untradeable AP set.

    9 APES in 21 days means 30 weeks for a +15 set and weapon - one. I wish any new player good luck with that. Gearing up in 2.0 didn’t take that much time even + you didn’t have to spend more than 12€ a month for aion ;)

    @Senpai I’m glad you like doing Luna and Arkhal, maybe 10-15 times a day. Some people would call this torture. The quests aren’t bad, or let’s say the idea behind them.
    However I want to choose whether I want to do LoK or Arkhal or Kill 40 Asmos, not beeing forced to do what comes along. Also we’re missing:
    - Narakkalli
    - more pvp quests
    - option to chose between a variety of quests with a weekly repeat limit
    - Serums (still no info about them @Galeas)
    - Few more Manastones (it’s a bit boring to do Mechanerk on 40 characters every week) I rather do some stuff on my main to get them
    - tradeable APES and Serums with 5.8 coming, untradeable ones will be Estima fodder, nothing else.
  • @illidan
    Ofcourse there will be downsides to the hero trials, like that you can't do them on level 10 characters (which needed to be 66+ anyway if you wanted to get mighty supplements from LoK to enchant), and it also takes more time individually, but Hero trials were supposed to give active players an alternative for luna all-powerfuls, not add something that would increase the amount of All-powerfuls even more than luna did. For mains, these hero trials are better than luna was, for alts, it isn't due to time/effort. But seeing as gear is becoming untradable again, I personally rather have 8-9 all-powerfuls on my main and ~3-4 on alts instead of '5.25' on main & alts per 21 days. Note that doing luna is still worth it for the exp and level reduction stones as well as a sporadic all-powerful stone.

    As a player, I prefer these hero trials combined with a nerfed luna over no hero trials combined with a pre-nerf luna (especially when taking into consideration 5.8)

    @Click
    I'm not sure where I said I like to do luna and/or arkhal 10+ times per day, but when they are as a hero trial I do try to do 8 arkhals but that's only at sporadic times. I agree that those other options like narakkalli would be beneficial for more experienced players, but you must have noticed in the luna thread that people were very angry for some reason that narakkalli could be giving players all-powerful stones even though Galeas didn't say Narakkalli/museum would be the ONLY places that gave 'replacement' all-powerfuls.
    NEW FORUM HERE: forum.aion.gameforge.com/
  • Senpai wrote:

    As for fixing the bug to prevent people from bug abusing. Due to all-powerfuls being in the rewards and the bug exploit being shared with many more people, I imagine the priority count on the bug must have gone up, which is how things go in most businesses: some things have priority over other things.


    And about collecting/calculating: The nerf was in the beginning of August and the Hero trials were updated in the middle of October.
    You imagine the priority count on the bug MUST HAVE GONE UP?My friend have u been noticing the problems people HAVE with sendlogs,random crashes? But yes yes i do see how they are prioritizing ,do share more of your WISE choice of words,i be sitting here reading and laughing.