Temp Class Problems

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    • Temp Class Problems

      hiii
      as u guys see we have a lot of problems with class ( i means it not balance )
      in warrior ( templar ) is useless for 80% instance , u only need temp for SWB / Makarna / THS
      u only need temp for this 3 instance , the rest can be tank with AT , SIN or in some of them u dont even need a tank .so basically u r a temp, u cant run any of the instance if u dont know anyone ,unless u have friend to carry u or u be geared as shit so they sure u make more dps than them ! because when there is no need for tank they get dps to make sure the dps is enough and make it faster for them ( in same gear other class can make more dps than temp )
      also there is some resolve for it
      1 _ u change the instance ( to make the temp useful for it )
      2 _ u change the class chose ( make it like a tree that let u change anytime u want *not in middle of pvp or pve* so u can change to glad or temp < also if u guys do it this way u can make some more class like limited the temp to shield and sword only and let the glad use spear , and u make a new class that can use 2 great sword ( well u need to reduce the damage of it in that case )
      3 _ add some more skill to temp that can be apply in pve for more damage
      4 _ or change the chose class at lvl 10 to lvl 74 so u r pretty sure u can do anything
      * but my suggestion is to make it like tree so there will be more class for each type (race) whatever u call it ,
      well if u have better suggestion pls dont forget to write it
      Ty ?(

    • No thanks, templar is not useless for 80% of dungeons at all sure we can do dungeons with gladiators instead but that just helps finding "a tank" faster which is good, templars are still the best tank in game specially with buffs to support their groups and about the templar damage if you have gear and u know how to dps properly u can deal a good amount of damage for a tank class

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Jumpzy ().

    • I think Templar is fine

      Even if you're not geared to the teeth, DPSing on Templar is pretty easy and damage difference to a Gladiator is easily made up by defensive capabilities.


      If people don't take you with them, you've either very recently reached endgame or your DPS isn't on par for the course.
      Templar is a great class and while I agree that I wouldn't use a Templar for super high DPS purposes to shave off the last few seconds of a dungeon duration you should have absolutely no issues finding a group for any kind of content.

      Introducing mechanics that allow only Templars to work for a certain boss will make group building a chore. The way things are now any class can tank as long as the healers are up to par and that's great.

    • I agree with TS. For example, when i tried to join some group, I wasnt invited because no one needs temp actually. They prefer to invite 2 clers or just much support (cler+chant+bard) instead of temp cause he actually does low dps and not needed as tank. Even support such class as cler does more dps than temp, so idk what you are talking about Erufuun.
      About certaion bosses: i was in LoK just 3 times and noticed one of bosses (mezram, as i remember) does oneshots and only templar can survive here by vision barrier/iron skin/2k dp shield or just cause of huge amount of hp probably. But I see ppl do instance without templars. Idk how they do it, but seems they prefer to kill boss in less than 5 mins to prevent next stage of fight (again oneshots) than to tank it slowly. Maybe I dont knoe something, but the same about Kroban where needs to kill adds quick.
      Also this link you placed doesnt show anything. Need to know gear of all members of his group, level, their connection, how much times they died, if they used fireform and ofc their gameplay (weaving, skills rotation, if temp was using 10% atk bonus by running). In 90% of my forts runs i am top-1 dps even if i hit in parry of boss often (3.2k acc only). Yes, there groups are randoms, but my pve gear is bad and i dont know if this templar you linked has randoms in his group.

      About suggestion: it is easy to fix class in pve by using 1 option from other games. Just add to all skills bonus like "if target is balaur/mob, skill does 1k additional damage", for example. It will not touch pvp and will give templars some use in pve. Why do clers/bards as sup/half-sup classes have so high dmg, but templars no? D:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Desperation ().

    • Templars have the same issue DPS Chanters have.
      when i tried to join some group, I wasnt invited because no one needs temp actually.
      Try applying as a DPS Chanter, it's even harder.

      You can get by playing the classes without doing any damage. Many do so.

      As a result Templars and Chanters are generally viewed as inferior DPS and I won't disagree - on equal gear, we simply cannot compete with an equally skilled Assassin or Sorcerer. But no content in the game requires us to do so. Class-by-class differences are rather small and are easily made up by skill and decent gear.

      For all it matters you could do any content in the game with a setup consisting of Templars and Chanters as DPS only (if you could get past the first boss in Makarna, that is). Content seems to be tailored that average or slightly above average DPS players can deal a sufficient amount of damage. Templars and Chanters can easily hit that threshold, just not in the same quantity as other classes. Just imagine DPS as bell curves.

      Really, you've said all that needs to be said. Obviously a Templar needs to be more skilled than a Gladiator with equal damage. But either way the difference isn't so big as to make Templars obsolete.

      And well, I know Kanjiii has insane gear, but not only can you check party setup for all the runs on pveranks, you can look up some other Templars. They don't seem much worse if at all than Rangers, Gunners and Chanters... ;)

      Seriously though, add some bonus to a Templar's damage and you'll see players like Kanjiii do a Sin's DPS.

    • The issue is you compare templar that is geared like koreans i guess? In Korea temp could be top-1 class cause of his gear. We are in EU, there is a bit different situation. Templars in average EU gear are wiped by clers/chanters/ATs/bards/sms + some gunners/sorcs cause of high amount of hp in 5.0+, sorcs/gunners cant be destroyed in 2 pulls + earth form that allows gunner/sorc just sleep you if you use it, but if they use, you cant control them - it is high advantage.
      The same relates to pve: with average gear it will be one dps, but with "insane" gear, chanter mantras and WoW/SoD - another level of dps. Not so much ppl have "insane" gear to make a conclusion that templars dont need to be improved in pve regarding dps.

    • Mainly above the templar regarding the dps are classes such as sorc, sin >> gladiator, SM. A templar indeed isn't needed often for its shields and such and if you only rely on that it's obvious that people won't view you as someone really "supporting" a group but probably slowing them down instead.

      Desperation wrote:

      does oneshots and only templar can survive here by vision barrier/iron skin/2k dp shield or just cause of huge amount of hp probably
      Anyone can tank those if people just stand on one spot since it's shared damage (no need to act like Sywosan here indeed).

      In my opinion it's not that difficult to play a templar and find groups - if you take your time learning how to deal dps. Other physical classes without any gear won't deal that much damage either, but anyone can work on it and still be respected. Most random templars I meet can't weave well for example or don't care about dealing damage, so it's hardly surprising that they're not taken serious. Others take out their junk gear if doing pve - similar case here.
      Before people didn't expect much from templars and they could run around with no gear at all - now they may have to work on themselves actually. So they can either accept the challenge or switch classes.

    • Something ive never understood in aion tbh is why ppl do expect that templar shud have high dps in an instances? ive played many diffrent games over the years started play wow when it was realsed too and played vanila wow, and in all games its about what the tank can bring too the grp tank wise, support, help hold all aggro so the DPS ppl can nuke use all there skills on mobs bosses with out beeing killed, so tanks job keep the grp members alive with holding good aggro, trown in an bg if needed from aoe dmg on the cler too make less stress on the cleric.
      And Another thing aswel why all templars running around with greatsword, just cause ppl wanna see some more dps, insteed of wearing and one handed weapon and shiled for all extra deffence its provides, same like all other tanks in all other game yes tank use one handed weapon and an shiled.
      But in aion seems its all about that dps, and ofc an dps link at the end too meture that epeen for the rest of the grp that they did manage the higest dps in grp, maybe time too look at the side and let tank be tanks, and dpses be dps.
      An well geard shiled carrying temp survile and holds soo much more too the grp insteed o wearing an greatsword witch makes soo mani abilitys aswel not usedabel, an yes some ppl say switch too sword shiled between etc.
      Think we all can be honest and say how many times those ppl switches or might even have dealys the switch comes in the last second and the shiled wasnt there too carry out the purpose of it.

      Ps did play temp bk in the Days, and then you did see all temps carry one handed mace,sword eather one of them and an shiled and it worked great and temps did actylu have an better survability then then now Days, thats was all from me, did see the tread and just had too make an comment, and too all stubborn ppl out there that tells temp need bring more dps use an gs for higer dps in grp, pls do an temp yourself then, tank is tank dps class is dps enough said.

    • pervertpeewee wrote:

      Something ive never understood in aion tbh is why ppl do expect that templar shud have high dps in an instances? ive played many diffrent games over the years started play wow when it was realsed too and played vanila wow, and in all games its about what the tank can bring too the grp tank wise, support, help hold all aggro so the DPS ppl can nuke use all there skills on mobs bosses with out beeing killed, so tanks job keep the grp members alive with holding good aggro, trown in an bg if needed from aoe dmg on the cler too make less stress on the cleric.
      And Another thing aswel why all templars running around with greatsword, just cause ppl wanna see some more dps, insteed of wearing and one handed weapon and shiled for all extra deffence its provides, same like all other tanks in all other game yes tank use one handed weapon and an shiled.
      But in aion seems its all about that dps, and ofc an dps link at the end too meture that epeen for the rest of the grp that they did manage the higest dps in grp, maybe time too look at the side and let tank be tanks, and dpses be dps.
      An well geard shiled carrying temp survile and holds soo much more too the grp insteed o wearing an greatsword witch makes soo mani abilitys aswel not usedabel, an yes some ppl say switch too sword shiled between etc.
      Think we all can be honest and say how many times those ppl switches or might even have dealys the switch comes in the last second and the shiled wasnt there too carry out the purpose of it.

      Ps did play temp bk in the Days, and then you did see all temps carry one handed mace,sword eather one of them and an shiled and it worked great and temps did actylu have an better survability then then now Days, thats was all from me, did see the tread and just had too make an comment, and too all stubborn ppl out there that tells temp need bring more dps use an gs for higer dps in grp, pls do an temp yourself then, tank is tank dps class is dps enough said.
      See, other games other rules. Some games have a pretty harsh trinity like WoW, some games did away with trinity completely (GW2, BnS) and in AION's version of the classic trinity, Tank and Heal bleed into DPS but not the other way around.

      I highlighted some parts of your post that are the main issue.
      In AION a Templar can provide the support you're hinting at all while going hard on DPS. You know why Kanjiii's party is currently the fastest on Piton? Because his damage coupled with his inherent Templar skills he can use regardless of being defensive or offensive allow for the Chanter to go harder on DPS.

      To be frank a Sword'n'Board-Templar usually makes things worse for the team due to their lack of DPS. The longer a boss takes to kill, the longer adds are around, the worse it gets. Add waves are better dealt with huge DPS than a Templar kite-sponging their damage. Would you disagree?

      I will not carry an HP Templar through a dungeon that doesn't require him doing actually that (i.e. Makarna). Chances are a proper Gladiator/Sin/AT will pull aggro away from him anyway.

    • pervertpeewee wrote:

      Something ive never understood in aion tbh is why ppl do expect that templar shud have high dps in an instances?
      Because I compare dps of templars as tank class with dps of clerics as support class and I see "support" has more dps. If you dont agree that dps of temps should be imrpoved, than need to decrease also dps of clers/bards since they are half-support (as i told, ppl prefer to invite 2 clers instead of cler+temp cause cler does more dps and can heal/ress quick when needed). Furthermore ppl complained about too high dmg of clers in pvp. Some bards can literally wipe you in 5 sec of silence lock. So, I consider them as imbalanced in both pve and pvp. Why doesnt templar have a chance to be the same at least in pve?

      You talk too much about things that are not needed nowadays - tanking. No one would complain if there were instances that requires high surviveability (aka bosses with oneshots). Ofc templars would be welcome then. But since everyone can tank, i consider your post as pointless. Each group expects only dps by temp, not tanking. Thats why we talk about dps of templars.
      Increasing dps of templars was just one of ways. Also it could be increasing dmg of some boss'es skills to let templars be tanks

    • Yes, Templars do worse DPS than Clerics.

      Can a Cleric provide Bodyguard? Can a Cleric KD and pull an add wave? Can a Cleric to damage while having boss aggro? In the end, every class fills another role in PvE and things might or might nor even out in the end. PvP is a whole another topic here. We all know Songweavers (all magic DPS) are stupid strong in PvP.

      I get where you're coming from as a Chanter myself. I face similar problems, though granted I can fill a role outside of DPS easier.

      There are dungeons that require high surviveability, but if they made some bosses basically Templar tank only then you'd have two fixed party slots already (Cleric + Templar) for all content - and I think having a compulsory Cleric is bad already.

      But it's not so bad, there are bosses that become way easier with a Templar as a tank - and in the end, that's what Templars are still used for. There is no better damage sponge in the game, freeing up time for support and DPS to do harder DPS.

      The thing is: There's no need for a defensive Templar and I personally feel that's not a bad thing. A Templar can fully DPS and still provide Bodyguard. A Templar can fully DPS and still provide 5k shields. A Templar can fully DPS and still act as a damage sponge, with or without Iron Skin.

      Tanking is still required, because without a proper Tank things become so much harder to heal. Templars are the best damage sponges. Sometimes (most times) you just don't require the fufl spongyness of a defensive Templar.

      And really, in the end Templar is DPS who happens to be best Tank. We might not agree that this is the way a Tank class should be conceptualised, but for AION, it is. Templar is a fully capable DPS class and there other games where a classic tank's DPS is horrid. I think that's worse.

      You trade PvE DPS for extra security. That's a tradeoff. But I can't think of any content where the DPS difference is make or break.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Erufuun ().

    • pervertpeewee wrote:

      But in aion seems its all about that dps, and ofc an dps link at the end too meture that epeen for the rest of the grp that they did manage the higest dps in grp, maybe time too look at the side and let tank be tanks, and dpses be dps.
      The system doesn't work like that since the instances often have time limits (or are preferred to be finished quickly). For PvP shields and such might be more important, but the most I hear about PvE and "defensive" templars nowdays is justified like this: "The poor cleric will suffer if I'm not wearing sword/warhammer + shield and an hp set"
      In my opinion these people overlooked the fact that you can be defensive while being offensive nowadays due to changed stigma trees which won't really punish you for defensive stigmas (which was indeed different before 4.8).
      Anyway I've been playing templar since 3.x and never found it necessary to go much for hp sets or a defensive build. Mostly being a good templar/tank isn't about looking like a freezer but how to react/use your given skills depending on the situation.
      Furthermore you indeed have more possibilities to save/ease a situation compared to other "tank" classes. For example by using Empyrian Providence correctly.


      pervertpeewee wrote:

      and too all stubborn ppl out there that tells temp need bring more dps use an gs for higer dps in grp, pls do an temp yourself then, tank is tank dps class is dps enough said.
      In my opinion it's the other way around - anyone has to deal with the development of the game and its classes - if people still try to work with arguments that might have been valid (a bit) in 4.0 but not anymore they missed something and are either working on it or being eaten.
      I'm no Kanjii either, but even dealing half of his damage would still make you a fairly good templar often which isn't too hard to achieve. Anyone has to invest time and work if they really wish to be accepted as tanks, dps or healers/support.

    • hii ty for all of ur commend all u said is right but there is something u r wrong
      library = 2 cleric / dps , 1 cleric /chanter /dps . 1 cleric / bard /dps
      Garden = same as library
      if im not wrong this 2 instance is the best of other instance ( for make kinah and gear )
      ok here we go , the dps goes like this , SIN > SORC > CLERIC > GLAD
      well thats ik so far but in new patch it may be the mage class have more dps
      temp is a great class on pvp , but lack alot in pve , why ?!
      1-because other class have abit lower hp than temp and if they dont have more physical def they have shield or dodge
      2-in new instance or old just some of the end boss spawn mobs
      so u dont need AOE taunt if u need at end they get an AT at the end
      3-there is not any boost skill for temp to be over power than other class ( i have a sin in NA , TM server i did tank all the instance , because u dont need temp !!! ) also boss have timer of 5min ,when it dont need tank so no one getting tank for it if u think about it or if u want to be honest with yourself u see that they make temp rly useless in pve
      so far i have seen they only get temp for world boss because of the hp set and taunt spawn
      *all im saying make the boss abit easer but u need to have tank for it or GG so they dont run instance without temp( like spawn adds or need someone to kite the mobs )
      i still belive they need to change the chose class or give a tree to each class
      well thats all i can say
      pls write if u have anything on ur mind

    • I agree dungeons do not need to be changed. As people's levels and armour defense increase then their ability to play role of tank will increase so you would be forever changing dungeon bosses. Yes cleric has some good dps but it drains MP that may be needed for healing, Also the longer casts can be interrupted. I may be old school but I look to the templar as leader of group. Picking and marking targets, getting the aggro so others in the group can burn the mob down. Many group protection skills. All in the group have a role, dps, crowd control. Templar does have the choice of dps stigmas or tanking stigmas.

      I love it when there is a templar in a group, it makes my job healing so much easier, focus on the tank and throw in some group heals when needed. If a templar changes to focus more on dps, sacrificing his tanking role then he puts more strain on the healer with the possibility of some people dying. Why not level up a gladiator if you want to be a warrior class with more dps? (not telling you to, just giving a suggesion)

    • pcyousef2009 wrote:

      hii ty for all of ur commend all u said is right but there is something u r wrong
      library = 2 cleric / dps , 1 cleric /chanter /dps . 1 cleric / bard /dps
      Garden = same as library
      Somewhere along these lines the dungeon is fixed yes. The only non-flexible slot is the Cleric's.
      if im not wrong this 2 instance is the best of other instance ( for make kinah and gear )
      ok here we go , the dps goes like this , SIN > SORC > CLERIC > GLAD
      well thats ik so far but in new patch it may be the mage class have more dps
      Two issues about that: You're ranking by maximum potential. Which does not matter for either dungeon because a well played Templar easily does more DPS than average so-called DPS players. Doing those dungeons isn't an issue of "which class is the better DPS" but "who is the more skilled player?"´. Classes are relatively close DPS wise, so individual player skill trumps class in all requirements the game gives. You could run Garden with five Chanters and a Cleric and still manage better than taking random Sorcs of LFG.
      Also the current ranking seems more like Sorc = Sin >> Glad > SM > Cleric = SW like @Sirkka already said.

      temp is a great class on pvp , but lack alot in pve , why ?!
      1-because other class have abit lower hp than temp and if they dont have more physical def they have shield or dodge
      2-in new instance or old just some of the end boss spawn mobs
      so u dont need AOE taunt if u need at end they get an AT at the end
      Well, I do sometimes prefer ATs over Templars, but it certainly is not because of their DPS. Hell, their single target DPS seems to be worse than Templar and Chanter these days?
      Sundering Blade is just an OP skill and if ATs didn't have that, they'd be only half as good.
      3-there is not any boost skill for temp to be over power than other class ( i have a sin in NA , TM server i did tank all the instance , because u dont need temp !!! ) also boss have timer of 5min ,when it dont need tank so no one getting tank for it if u think about it or if u want to be honest with yourself u see that they make temp rly useless in pve

      DPS tanks better than HP and Taunts. Assassins are even made out to be tanks. They have all the tools and a taunt even. The "best" Tank however is still a heavy DPS Templar.

    • Erufuun wrote:

      pcyousef2009 wrote:

      hii ty for all of ur commend all u said is right but there is something u r wrong
      library = 2 cleric / dps , 1 cleric /chanter /dps . 1 cleric / bard /dps
      Garden = same as library
      Somewhere along these lines the dungeon is fixed yes. The only non-flexible slot is the Cleric's.
      if im not wrong this 2 instance is the best of other instance ( for make kinah and gear )
      ok here we go , the dps goes like this , SIN > SORC > CLERIC > GLAD
      well thats ik so far but in new patch it may be the mage class have more dps
      Two issues about that: You're ranking by maximum potential. Which does not matter for either dungeon because a well played Templar easily does more DPS than average so-called DPS players. Doing those dungeons isn't an issue of "which class is the better DPS" but "who is the more skilled player?"´. Classes are relatively close DPS wise, so individual player skill trumps class in all requirements the game gives. You could run Garden with five Chanters and a Cleric and still manage better than taking random Sorcs of LFG.Also the current ranking seems more like Sorc = Sin >> Glad > SM > Cleric = SW like @Sirkka already said.

      temp is a great class on pvp , but lack alot in pve , why ?!
      1-because other class have abit lower hp than temp and if they dont have more physical def they have shield or dodge
      2-in new instance or old just some of the end boss spawn mobs
      so u dont need AOE taunt if u need at end they get an AT at the end
      Well, I do sometimes prefer ATs over Templars, but it certainly is not because of their DPS. Hell, their single target DPS seems to be worse than Templar and Chanter these days?Sundering Blade is just an OP skill and if ATs didn't have that, they'd be only half as good.
      3-there is not any boost skill for temp to be over power than other class ( i have a sin in NA , TM server i did tank all the instance , because u dont need temp !!! ) also boss have timer of 5min ,when it dont need tank so no one getting tank for it if u think about it or if u want to be honest with yourself u see that they make temp rly useless in pve
      DPS tanks better than HP and Taunts. Assassins are even made out to be tanks. They have all the tools and a taunt even. The "best" Tank however is still a heavy DPS Templar.
      well look when im speaking about dps , i dont means a full geared temp vs a shit gear sorc or sin
      yea temps have dps but ( have this but =)) ) , u r a new player now u hit lvl 71 u have full AC gear +10
      but u still dont get people for going library > u get lvl 71~72 still no one invite u for garden because other class with same gear make alot more dps and have abit lower hp or other stuff ( the instance dont need tank also GG ), thats the problem ( why a temp cant make dps with an AC gear while a sin get just 2k hp lower than a temp with out buff , with alot dps !!!! ) and as if u read upper reply class like ( cleric . SW ) have insane dps in AC gear too ! while they r support !
      also i dont think u can get 4chanter and 1 cleric to do garden even if u get it take alot time to do it
      the problem is Temp need a better gear all the time to do instance that a chanter/cleric/etc can do it ( the big problem is here ) because u r not tank . u r not dps , u r not support , then whats the use < u need better gear to be apart as them so they let u go with them , or believe me even u wont invite a temp to ur group because it have no use ( also people dont care how good u weave or u play and whats ur rotation , because other class surpass u with out doing anything like that , at the end if u guys failed to do it <<<< they flame at u because of ur dps
      well sry if i write abit bad my eng is not rly good =))

    • I have a legion mate templar with Rune Hero. His damage is great.

      I'm a Chanter and I face(d) the same trouble when applying on LFG. Unless you have a legion you need to be a well known quantity on the server. But that's because many groups looking on LFG tend to be bad themselves.

      I wouldn't take a Templar I don't know with me any more than a Gunner or Ranger I don't know. But aionpveranks.com helps a lot. If you have a damage parse on there, I can look you up and don't need to judge you by your class or your gear - but by your damage only.

      That's why pveranks is so great.

      And honestly, I will not decline a Templar to Library or Garden or any dungeon if I know his gear is adequate and his skill fine - because pveranks also helps with normalising people roughly for gear. If your damage is good it will show regardless of gear.

    • Sita wrote:

      moved to templar section
      nooooooooooooooooo my dear sita =))
      the main post was for a suggestion to change abit the class or instance ( well nvm u dont look interest about it )

      Erufuun wrote:

      I have a legion mate templar with Rune Hero. His damage is great.

      I'm a Chanter and I face(d) the same trouble when applying on LFG. Unless you have a legion you need to be a well known quantity on the server. But that's because many groups looking on LFG tend to be bad themselves.

      I wouldn't take a Templar I don't know with me any more than a Gunner or Ranger I don't know. But aionpveranks.com helps a lot. If you have a damage parse on there, I can look you up and don't need to judge you by your class or your gear - but by your damage only.

      That's why pveranks is so great.

      And honestly, I will not decline a Templar to Library or Garden or any dungeon if I know his gear is adequate and his skill fine - because pveranks also helps with normalising people roughly for gear. If your damage is good it will show regardless of gear.
      well i didnt record any dps at pve rank , but if i run any instance today i make one for u and u can see

    • Erufuun wrote:

      aionpveranks.com



      Edited text
      That website should be deleted, its counter productive to the whole game and it removes players who actually want to go to the instance, a better site would be promoting how to improve your overall damage with guides on each class and how they work.

      To back on subject there is in terms of Templar damage nothing wrong with them in fact its be coming one of the broken classes if we are looking at pvp.