Temp Class Problems

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    • Ironskin wrote:

      I remeber the times when I was aked how much HP u have, how much block u have, no1 cared about how much dps I can deal, all they cared was to be able to stand high dmg. Now every one they asking me, how much dps u can deal.
      I'm playing Aion since 2.7 and there wasn't a reason for HP sets or block back then either. Maybe there were instances where Templars might've been helpful at a certain point or even had some more defensive tasks (first boss BT, Beritra, Runadium.. and they were seen often in Katalamize at the beginning), but lots of these were results of a) not knowing the instance b) not knowing enough about classes.
      Therefore I don't think that the role really changed by itself, what changed is the knowledge people have about the game nowadays.

      Defensive sets are completely 'annihilated' in groups who really want to succeed demanding instances. HP cleric or chanter? Exchanged for Mboost or Atk/Crit sets. Defensive Templar? Became useless with the stigma update (4.8) (stigmawise) and defensive sets never had a point, but were sort of an artificial demand the players made up.

      Tanks and healers have different roles to perform if they want to be really acknowledged. At least so far. Who knows whether they want to change this a lot in the future. In fact there are quite a few weak classes though which are indeed more useless than a templar (e.g. ranger, aethertech) or they become useless if there's too many of them (regarding their dot skills). Therefore I don't think it's justified to mourn the templar if there're worse classes.

      Oh an both Narakkalli HM alliances do have a templar even if e.g. gladiators could be more useful - but templars can take Cold Strike by themselves quite often and therefore take pressure from the clerics. There are other solutions, but a templar is one of the possibilities given. And there's no class you can't survive without everything except for cleric.
    • hehexd wrote:

      I mean he isn't wrong, in most games tank is a must, but in Aion you can do without and by doing that it will even be more efficent. Still you can find group as templar easily.
      Well, for almost all current content you still want a selected few classes to tank - apart from Piton, where it really doesn't matter what tanks, you want either Temp/Glad/Sin/AT/Chanter holding the aggro, all else is just mighty bothersome.
    • Do you still think sorc is the best dps class and temp has zero dps in pve?
      Look at the best pve dps class - cleric!
      There are more clers that did succed in Tower than all temps+glads+sorcs+sms+sins+rangers. How can we still discuss that temp is nerfed in terms of being useful in pve when you just can invite 2nd cler instead of any dps?

      Actually I dont care, just noticed this funny table of rankings, was interesting how many temps and clers finished boss in Tower.
    • yes .. coz this shows how it works actually...
      1st clerics are prolly 10x or more times more than templars
      2nd not every1 is even trying, i havent entered there with my sm/sin/temp/glad yet , even tho they're at floor 40 alreadyy
      3rd dahell are u even bringing that boss up when it is not even a dps boss, but ability wise situation?
    • I love when people are so constructive .. NOT.


      We speaking about a general degradation of the templar as class and many here are just so subjective and they adjusting the "theory of relativity" just to show how great are they on templar.
      All the facts out there show templar sucks big time as a class. Take it of leave it. Templar as class should be a bad as on defense, you should get bored by hinting a tank. A tank should base on defense, counter attack skills, etc. Look at 6.0 all new skills are based on defense and not dps (even more than that templar is nerfed as dps, most of the skills are reduced as dmg) but the present game mechanism fails templar class so bad.


      You wanna some examples why Templar sucks?

      Example one:

      1. Templar full apolon 1750 attack 2400 cirt 26K HP, has big issues on lvl 6 that 2 mages or what ever they are, failed on lvl 13 or 14 where u have to transfom water/fire. Failed cause was taking dmg like hell and had not enough sustainability.
      1'. Cleric lvl 71 mb 3900 hp 16k ( lvl 65 gear) reached lvl 36. After that i just give up I was just to bored to continue.

      2. Templar core solo instance. Very carefully. I need to calculate every pot, every skill, every CD, every move. One mistake and I am falling.
      2' Same noob cleric I am doing it with my eye closed, If i fail usually happens if i get distracted and i dont pay attention to boss skills.


      Here is the difference of a fail class. Stop bla bla about what can be and what can you do with your friends etc. We speaking as a class and this class on this moment fails bad. There is no actually need of a templar, personally when I am on cleric I prefer a gladi on dual. Better dmg because I just dont need any templar defense. I can heal everything.


      3 Templar lvl 71 with 65 gear is totally uselss on LOK
      3' Cleric lvl 71 gear 65 finishing lok by being the single heal on party with no one dying or complaining about heals.

      Who has other classes can do similar cooperation and see what comes up. I hear also rangers are in same situation. This i dont know I dont play a ranger, but this post is about templar class and not rangers.


      And btw, that templars with 3 mil dmg and a sorc with +20 gerr makes 2.8 mil dmg, they are on "pills" if you know what I mean!
    • It's true that templar is not really good in solo pve, and it sucks in group pve too with garbage set, and that a cleric can be good in that situation even with sciòn gear.
      BUT the point is that every class has its own growth gauge and its pros and cons.
      Templars has just a harder path and cleric is is just a class for dummies for the situation you described. Those comparisons don't represent the whole situation.

      Take in consideration an assassin instead of a templar to be compared with cleric in those situation: assassin will suck too. Following you logic assassin would be a fail class then... But it's not, it's a top tier dps but to be like that you have to got good gear, good connection and good pc.


      If you don't want to put effort for this class, then it's fine, it's your choice, it just mean templar doesn't suit your playing style. There's no need to complain over and over about how "useless" is this class and putting really biased example. Just reroll cleric, bard or sorc and do as many Lok you want and being appreciated even with Sciòn gear.
    • Ironskin wrote:


      1. Templar full apolon 1750 attack 2400 cirt 26K HP, has big issues on lvl 6 that 2 mages or what ever they are, failed on lvl 13 or 14 where u have to transfom water/fire. Failed cause was taking dmg like hell and had not enough sustainability.



      2. Templar core solo instance. Very carefully. I need to calculate every pot, every skill, every CD, every move. One mistake and I am falling.
      I have played Templar and Sin since 7 years for now, and you know what? You are saying a bullshit right know. I have never ever had any problem in ToC on any floor than 40 on my Temp.

      The biggest problem for any Templar is a timer in instances. When they first introduced LoK, GoK, and MoK these instances were not about survival, but about taking boss asap. There is the same problem with ToC on the last floor. It's commonly known that Templar is not a DPS so good as Sorcs, Clers etc., because as Dagger said he has definitly other role in instances. It's about taking dmg on you that the clerics will have much easier job. There is no other class with so much HP and defensive stats. You can ask any Cler about that and I'm pretty sure that for them Templar is the best to heal for.

      Great example of being usefull for Temps was Makarna a long ago, when two groups were needed. And I hope that in new patches they will do the same thing. That's the way to rebalance Templar class - just making instances where without them you can easily die.

      And last words - I have read everything what you did said in this thread and unfortunatly I just can say that you are really bad player. I have never seen a player playing a class he hates so much.
    • Sziszu wrote:

      Ironskin wrote:

      1. Templar full apolon 1750 attack 2400 cirt 26K HP, has big issues on lvl 6 that 2 mages or what ever they are, failed on lvl 13 or 14 where u have to transfom water/fire. Failed cause was taking dmg like hell and had not enough sustainability.



      2. Templar core solo instance. Very carefully. I need to calculate every pot, every skill, every CD, every move. One mistake and I am falling.
      I have played Templar and Sin since 7 years for now, and you know what? You are saying a bullshit right know. I have never ever had any problem in ToC on any floor than 40 on my Temp.
      The biggest problem for any Templar is a timer in instances. When they first introduced LoK, GoK, and MoK these instances were not about survival, but about taking boss asap. There is the same problem with ToC on the last floor. It's commonly known that Templar is not a DPS so good as Sorcs, Clers etc., because as Dagger said he has definitly other role in instances. It's about taking dmg on you that the clerics will have much easier job. There is no other class with so much HP and defensive stats. You can ask any Cler about that and I'm pretty sure that for them Templar is the best to heal for.

      Great example of being usefull for Temps was Makarna a long ago, when two groups were needed. And I hope that in new patches they will do the same thing. That's the way to rebalance Templar class - just making instances where without them you can easily die.

      And last words - I have read everything what you did said in this thread and unfortunatly I just can say that you are really bad player. I have never seen a player playing a class he hates so much.
      So you saying now instances are all about dps, and templar was good LONG TIME AGO in Makarma, but keep saying the templar is a good class. Most of you missing the point. A class is good if is need it, and guess what, NO1 needs a Templar anymore this is my point.

      And also you contradict yourself .. "The biggest problem for any Templar is a timer in instances". You are just admiting that DPS has more advantages over defense but soon they nerfed the instace, templar just become better? No .. the others will say... better than nothing, lets take this templar.

      So decide yourself. Dose the ppl needs templar class or not, at the state the game is on this moment.

      Tell me one single instance where Templar is required because I can tell you where is not required:

      1. LoK not requierd
      2. GoK not requierd
      3. Narakalli not requierd
      4. Holly Tower not required, is even advisable not to take a temp so you can have the burst dmg.

      Maybe is required on .. o wait .. there are no more instances. Maybe is required for farming mobs.

      Just name me one single instance where Templar as class ( not you with your friends) is required. Has Templar defensive skills, yes, but over all you have more advantages for high DPS that from defensive skills of a Templar. And I am not a bad player I am the worst player u ever seen, but this wont change the reality about a Templar class on this moment.
    • Ironskin wrote:

      A class is good if is need it, and guess what, NO1 needs a Templar anymore this is my point.
      do we all have to write u that if this is your logic:
      -nobody needs AT
      -nobody needs Ranger
      -mostly nobody cares about SM

      Ironskin wrote:

      Tell me one single instance where Templar is required because I can tell you where is not required:

      1. LoK not requierd
      2. GoK not requierd
      3. Narakalli not requierd
      4. Holly Tower not required, is even advisable not to take a temp so you can have the burst dmg.
      1.LoK no specific class is required, yes not even cleric
      2. GoK only required class is 1 cleric, all other 5 can be w/e
      3. Cleric is REQUIRED IF u do golmir or u wanna do it faster and safer(YE with templar its much safer as well), otherwise u can do it even with combo of chanters/bards on supp
      4.Temp is not that bad for Holy Tower actually it does more or less good burst on the add, Problem tho is that its melee range therefore not rly cool for the legate mob , but all melees share same issue. Boss makes mostly phys attacks therefore permanent counter shield buff.

      but sure keep saying templar need to be required somewhere, coz u know u are the center of the universe and as the TS u want the tank to be top dps too.
    • t0re wrote:

      Ironskin wrote:

      A class is good if is need it, and guess what, NO1 needs a Templar anymore this is my point.
      do we all have to write u that if this is your logic:-nobody needs AT
      -nobody needs Ranger
      -mostly nobody cares about SM

      Ironskin wrote:

      Tell me one single instance where Templar is required because I can tell you where is not required:

      1. LoK not requierd
      2. GoK not requierd
      3. Narakalli not requierd
      4. Holly Tower not required, is even advisable not to take a temp so you can have the burst dmg.
      1.LoK no specific class is required, yes not even cleric2. GoK only required class is 1 cleric, all other 5 can be w/e
      3. Cleric is REQUIRED IF u do golmir or u wanna do it fast, otherwise u can do it even with combo of chanters/bards on supp
      4.Temp is not that bad for Holy Tower actually it does more or less good burst on the add, Problem tho is that its melee range therefore not rly cool for the legate mob , but all melees share same issue. Boss makes mostly phys attacks therefore permanent counter shield buff.

      but sure keep saying templar need to be required somewhere, coz u know u are the center of the universe and as the TS u want the tank to be top dps too.

      Well no quite so:

      1. sorc always need it -- high DPS
      2. Bard -- high need. Very good DPS ( I saw many as top dps, good sustainability and more then that give loads of mana and ppl dose always asks for mana)
      3. Gunner -- very good dps ( high top) at least on the alliance I am running
      4. Gladi - dual - good dps - prefered over templar
      5. chanter -- is good most ppl likes chanter on support, so that makes it need it
      6. Cleric -- no discussion here

      7 - range a class that is disappearing.
      8. SM -- not sure what is happening with this class, but ppl saying is low dps .. i have no clue.
      9. Templars - everyone has its on story, seams

      So, all replies I got was only bla bla, but not a SINGLE example to sustain the reality you speaking about. And I dont need to tank everything, all i need is ppl would actually need a templar and wont say.. sorry I have to take a DPS insted of a templar.

      You guys coming with .. if ... else.. entire code condition and keeps saying templar as a class is need it!

      I think I am playing some other game, I have to check.. or i had to much weed.
    • failboat wrote:

      If people are having trouble in ToC on plates, being that templar, I don't know what to tell you but you won't make it far on leather. For me I find it harder to do it on ranger or sin (on sin because the lack of aoe mostly).

      Everything I am trying to say is, the present game mechanics gives advantages to some specific classes and other classed are way inferior not because of the class itself is just because the game mechanism are not build in a equal measure for all classes.

      I know many ppl that played rangers, and when I come back, they re-rolled, mostly on sorcs. The way that the community acts, by re-roll, by realizing they have more benefits and they have high success rate form a DPS class then a a defensive class, etc just tells me what is happening with certain classes on the game.

      Not our theory dictates what is good or not but the community if needs it or not.
    • @Ironskin
      You know, tore is not blablaing, he's just saying that the only class you really need is the cleric, and there are exception even for that class. I haven't see Gok group or Nara ally asking for sorcerer to be recruited before starting the istance... They may PREFER to have a sorcerer, but they don't NEED.

      It's true that templar is a class that is not really popular (in the sense people usually prefer other classes to it), but this game is not supposed to be played only applying to lfg groups/allies. The problem of not being a popular class is easily solved by playing with friends or in a legion and being acknoledged by them as a good player, indipendently from which classes you're playing as main.

      As I already said, if you think that this is a path you don't want to follow, you're free to reroll to one of the poplular classes like sorcerer, bard or cleric. Nobody is forcing you playing templar.

      But don't think that playing those classes means you can be easily accepted in every lfg group/ally. That would be true only for simple instances. Don't except people will take you for Bulion, Holy Tower or Narakkalli nm/hm, just because you're a sorcerer, bard or cleric, you have to be a really good one and being good in a class which is really popular also means that there is more competition.

      EDIT: sorry, I haven't read your previous post before positng mine the first time, read just the last part.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DaggerOath ().

    • Ironskin wrote:

      Everything I am trying to say is, the present game mechanics gives advantages to some specific classes and other classed are way inferior not because of the class itself is just because the game mechanism are not build in a equal measure for all classes.
      This is not present game mechanics. This has happened from the start of the game. We were playing in groups while clerics could solo Tursin/Kaidan/Kishar and all those elite mobs areas for xp, or abyss elites for ap, then later they were soloing Udas, Besh, Eso, Rakshang etc. Until later when NC decided to make some changes to instances. I don't see anything new, just that now is more or less irrelevant the differences between classes, allowing each one of them a chance unlike in the past.
    • DaggerOath wrote:

      @Ironskin
      You know, tore is not blablaing, he's just saying that the only class you really need is the cleric, and there are exception even for that class. I haven't see Gok group or Nara ally asking for sorcerer to be recruited before starting the istance... They may PREFER to have a sorcerer, but they don't NEED.

      It's true that templar is a class that is not really popular (in the sense people usually prefer other classes to it), but this game is not supposed to be played only applying to lfg groups/allies. The problem of not being a popular class is easily solved by playing with friends or in a legion and being acknoledged by them as a good player, indipendently from which classes you're playing as main.

      As I already said, if you think that this is a path you don't want to follow, you're free to reroll to one of the poplular classes like sorcerer, bard or cleric. Nobody is forcing you playing templar.

      But don't think that playing those classes means you can be easily accepted in every lfg group/ally. That would be true only for simple instances. Don't except people will take you for Bulion, Holy Tower or Narakkalli nm/hm, just because you're a sorcerer, bard or cleric, you have to be a really good one and being good in a class which is really popular also means that there is more competition.

      EDIT: sorry, I haven't read your previous post before positng mine the first time, read just the last part.

      Finally that some1 sees the things how they are. If i can overcome this issues, sure I am. Friends, multiboxing, etc, but is this ok? For sure not. Can I re-roll, sure I can but what happens if everyone will re-roll?

      As humans we always find a way, the difference is, there is an hard way and an easy way.
    • some of you guys totaly miss the point. He is just trying to say if in the same time good temp or good sin/gunner/sorc whatever apply to a easy instanc like lok gok even nara em...what you woud pick and invite? Speaking lfg wise....

      Ofc depends on membebrs you already have, but lets be honest noone realy need a templar. Templar is just kinda needed in nara nm.

      The only solution is playing with friends, or beeing a realy geared temp with good dps...but most ppl say low dps cz they dont know the classes and their potential what dmg they can deliver. My 5 cents.
    • Hashtag wrote:

      some of you guys totaly miss the point. He is just trying to say if in the same time good temp or good sin/gunner/sorc whatever apply to a easy instanc like lok gok even nara em...what you woud pick and invite? Speaking lfg wise....

      Ofc depends on membebrs you already have, but lets be honest noone realy need a templar. Templar is just kinda needed in nara nm.

      The only solution is playing with friends, or beeing a realy geared temp with good dps...but most ppl say low dps cz they dont know the classes and their potential what dmg they can deliver. My 5 cents.