PvE improvement suggestions essay with ranty lead-up thread thingy

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    • PvE improvement suggestions essay with ranty lead-up thread thingy

      As you may have noticed yourself, PvE is no longer what it used to be. In the recent few patches it has changed quite drastically infact, from being an integral part of gameplay into some sort of optional content barely worth spending your time and money on. Bellow I have compiled a list of problems as I see them and possible solutions with examples of potential improvements. I encourage other players to discuss my suggestions freely with one small exception – I kindly ask you to refrain from commenting on the balance of the suggested additional rewards unless you have successfully cleared that particular piece of content ingame atleast once yourself (examples: never having completed a full run of Garden of Knowledge within a timeframe of 45-60 minutes and claiming the suggested rewards were too generous or not generous enough).


      List of problems with the current state of PvE:


      Since the addition of the 5.x expansions PvE content has become »absolete«. This is mostly the fault of changes done to the siege reward system that did away with competative »individual contribution« based rewards and in doing so removed the DPS race variable. In some ways this is better as it somewhat promotes faction level teamwork over individual greed but it has had negative aftereffects. As there is no need to "strive" to deal the most damage or keep your group alive to get that rank 1 reward, the PvE gear that gave you edge over the competition is effectively useless. There is no easy solution for this particular problem, and even though preventing afk players from receiving rewards would help a bit, the bigger part of the problem is still something that can only be solved by somehow reintroducing »individual contribution« mechanics as well as making certain aspects of the siege battle heavily dependant on the player's PvE performance. Furthermore I do not think this issue could be solved by Gameforge alone since it likely oversteps their authority over the kind of changes they are allowed to make to the game and is as such something to be forwarded onto NCsoft as the game developer instead.


      (Consequentially) it has become difficult to find players to group up with for PvE. Since PvE has become »absolete«, there is very little interrest for it in the community and in some cases it has gotten to the point where it is practically impossible to run (endgame) instances without use of cross server grouping. At this point in time running (endgame) instances could be described as something inbetween the terms »inefficient« (since more money can be made elsewhere spending less time and less (, sometimes zero) effort to make it) and »wasteful« (as barely any experience progress is gained compared to other activities such as openworld leveling and often the total value of the loot received is worth less than the cost of supplies used). And even if you're just looking to show off your skills there is no real acchievement system that would allow you to do that. To summarize:

      • PvE is not rewarding enough moneywise.
      • PvE is not rewarding enough timewise.
      • PvE is not rewarding enough esteemwise.

      Having explained the problems with the current state of PvE I suggest the following improvements. The suggestions are balanced to what I have experienced as the "average amount" of time spent running a praticular instance and the overall difficulty of the instance found bellow.


      Average amount of time required to complete endgame instances:

      • between 20 and 30 minutes to complete a run of Kroban Base
      • between 45 and 60 minutes to complete a full run of Garden of Knowledge

      As endgame instances are challenging, sometimes tedious and require considerable gameplay skills, knowledge and teamwork to suceessfully complete, the rewards received should be worthwhile the time and effort invested. The bellow list of improvements contains 5 suggestions. Suggestions 1 and 2 are directly related to endgame instances. Suggestions 3, 4 and 5 are related to PvE in general.


      List of suggestions:


      1) Institute additional item rewards for endgame instances.


      Garden of Knowledge; Piton, 1 kill

      • 100% drop chance of 3 upgraded pieces from the Piton's drop table (1 of each - weapon, accessory piece and body armor) from both the Piton itself and the »secret« additional spoils chest.
      • 1 Noble +7 Manastone bundle (selectable) for each group member individually (either as »weekly« Hero quest, avaliable 4 times a week, or looted from the Piton's corpse).

      Kroban Base; Artefact Guardian Kroban, 1 kill

      • 100% result chance of equipment box from the rewards bundle (currently the rate is 1/3 exclusive chances of Armor Box and 1/6 exclusive chances of Weapons Box. That would be changed into 100% chance of receiving 1 of - 2/3 chances of Armor Box and 1/3 chances of Weapons Box).
      • 1 Noble +5 Manastone Bundle (selectable) for each group member individually (either as »weekly« Hero quest, avaliable 3 times a week, or obtained from the rewards bundle).

      2) Institute additional experience rewards for endgame instances.


      Garden of Knowledge; Piton, 1 kill

      • 1 Pure Merek's Wondrous Prayer for each group member individually (either as »weekly« Hero quest, avaliable 4 times a week, or looted from the Piton's corpse).
      Kroban Base; Artefact Guardian Kroban, total of 3 kills

      • 1 Burning Apple for each group member individually (as »weekly« Hero quest, avaliable 1 time a week).

      3) Adjust the mechanics of additional Upgrade Serum and All-powerful enchantment stone drops implemented with the Daeva-care initiative.
      • Exchange the (tradeable) Holy Upgrade Serum and All-Powerful Enchantment Stone with their (untradable) [Jakunerk] versions.
      • Reduce the drop rates of the (now) [Jakunerk] Holy Upgrade Serum and [Jakunerk] All-Powerful Enchantment Stone in high daeva instances from 10% to 5%.
      • Make the (now) [Jakunerk] Holy Upgrade Serum and [Jakunerk] All-Powerful Enchantment Stone lootable for each group member individually instead of a roll item.
      • Insititue a 5% chance of additional reward of [Jakunerk] Holy Upgrade Serum upon victory in Ashunatal Dredgion and Steel Wall Bastion Battlefield.
      • Add a 100% result chance of 1 [Jakunerk] Holy Upgrade Serum and 1 [Jakunerk] All-Powerful Enchantment Stone to Antriksha's Heavy Rewards Chest.

      4) Quality of life improvements for Cross-server option.


      Option A

      Open up another instanced server or expand existing rookie server making Nosra and Esterra areas and High-Daeva instances avaliable to High-Daeva characters. Bygone Weapon bosses and dimensional rifts would not spawn in this server.
      Added bonus: Players can duel with other servers within the faction more conveniently.


      Option B

      Add »Cross-server LFG« as an additional channel and enable advertising of recruitment. Standard chat in »Cross-server LFG« from and to individual servers with instanced server would not be avaliable. Standard chat in »Cross-server LFG« within the instanced server would be avaliable. Once a Cross-server group is filled and rediness is confirmed members would be teleported into the instance directly (without having to apply physically at the instance entrance).


      5) PvE Esteem, Incentives, Acchievements – whatever you want to call it I guess.


      An esteem system would provide an alternative reason for a lot of players to try PvE other than gear, money and leveling and possibly attract new players who normally don't do PvE at all.

      • Split the year into seasons lasting 2-3 week each.
      • Set challenges for each season and award unique chat bubble titles for the challenge winner(s) (physical rewards such as skins and pets would defeat the purpose altogether).
      • Examples: fastest instance completion times, lowest group member count to successfully clear a group+ instance, completing instances while limited to only 1 class etc.
      • Challenges could be reused in a later seson and titles redistributed (where it made sense to do so).
      That's all folks.


      Don't forget to :dislike: , roast and block ingame :atongue:

      ~Katz
    • This game has too many problems mate, and I doubt anyone of importance will even read what you wrote.

      Basically I only log for Hell Pass / Rift of Oblivion / Siege.

      Nothing else is worth doing in my opinion, events are extremely bad nowadays. In 3.0 you had eye.. in 4.0 you had kata underground.. there were things to do, but now it seems there's nothing that rewards your time, even this shugo, it's not worth wasting your time with other than one time for key quest.

      A lot of problems, in this game a new player cannot survive
    • I'd say the main problem with PVE now is that gear is much worse that what we had in previous patches, yet instances require alot more efford and time.

      For example:

      3.x What did we have. Elementis Forest and Argent Manor, both drop amazing PVE gear (Especialy nice as MR sets for Supports and Templar) Also amazing wings.
      Then we got Tiamat Fort, drops the best weapons in the game, can drop top mount(Something that we never has in any instance Besides RB).
      Talking about Rentus Base, dropped amazing eternal shield that had Magic Resist which was loved by clerics and templars.
      Then we got hell on earth called TH. We got introduced to mythical grade weapons. As well as eternal lvl 60 extendables that were crucial for Templars, Glads and Chants.

      Also the reason that we farmed those instances - enchantment stones. Yeah guys, remember those times when you could farm enchants yourself? Instead of having someone to buy them from shop? Good time, good times.

      4.x Katalamize - The best PVE gear in the game.
      Runadium The best weapons to fuse with PVP. Also amazing PVE Gear.
      SWB - No need to talk about it.
      Makarna took stop from Kata for best PVE gear.
      Also had Runadium and RST Heroic mode for even better weapons to fuse with pvp.

      5.x Adma and Ele Lab. Totaly useless gear.
      Arkhal's Hidden Space, same story, useless gear.
      Kroban Base...is anything still doing it?
      Lok - Was nice but GoK got introduced faster than people managed to farm full Lok set.
      Gok main and only instance thats worth investing time in. It takes some time but results can be dissapointing,drop one of the best end-game gear. Yet its the only place clerics can farm end-game pve support set.

      Now with 5.6 coming, we're getting Narakari, an instance that will drop weapons with mindblowing stats nad PVE %. So all of the above instances will become useless and forgotten.

      And this is the main problem. in 5.x They're pumping out so many pve instances, that its ridicilous. We don't have enoough time to get 1 set, when it time to farm another. I personaly don't even care about getting any pve set. I feel comfortable in my rune hero +10 for now. Maybe if they add Narakari and will keep it for atleast 6 months, I might consider farming it.

      Also why don't they add mounts back to some instances? For example some GG mount could drop from Piton or Kroban. Then people would have a reason to farm them.
    • I realy like the way you think. Back in days kata,runa,makarna was hard and fun to make when they got introduced and rewarding interesting, intense, you needed to be gg. Now you just constanly ask yourself why? Why woud i waste time for nothing. So noone runs pve anymore cz its beyond usless uninteresting, boring, bad designed, unrewarding and the most important thing WAY to long or time consuming.
    • Nobody cares about PvE in Aion because it's boring. There I wrote it.

      Reducing 10% drop rate to 5% on serums won't make us grind Adma, Ele, Kroban, Arkhal and Library like no tomorrow. In fact I haven't done those 2 instances since 5.1. I wouldn't grind it even if it was 50% drop rate. If it was 10% drop rate and everyone in the group got a serum (untradeable) I would consider it worth a try. I still would probably get bored after 1 week and go back to my siege/rift rotation. Rest of the problems with PvE got listed above so I'm not going to repeat them.

      It doesn't matter if its 5%, 10% or 50% drop rate for nice things as long as the content itself is boring. Bosses are always the same tank and spank and the mechanics never change. After doing same instance 20-30 times you just burn out and not feel like doing it anymore. It doesn't help that drop rates are low, everything breaks, stats on gear are based on RNG, you might need level reduction and manastones are expensive.
    • If u dont care doesnt mean others dont, i myself enjoy pve a lot especially some challanges and stuff , dont rly have uber overgeared group playing with me to run around pvping on everything so i stick to my pve mostly. I will always like pve and that wont change, unfortunately a lot of those "pvp" wannabe players around me suck big time coz never actually spend any time on in-depth pve to understand how the mechanics of the game work. Even tho i dont find myself to be pvp player i perform better in many occasions than most just coz of my time spend on pve.
    • t0re wrote:

      If u dont care doesnt mean others dont, i myself enjoy pve a lot especially some challanges and stuff , dont rly have uber overgeared group playing with me to run around pvping on everything so i stick to my pve mostly. I will always like pve and that wont change, unfortunately a lot of those "pvp" wannabe players around me suck big time coz never actually spend any time on in-depth pve to understand how the mechanics of the game work. Even tho i dont find myself to be pvp player i perform better in many occasions than most just coz of my time spend on pve.
      Well yeah you're right it's only my own opinion. I don't find that challenge in PvE you mentioned. Only boss that I would find a challenge is Piton but that is because the fight is so long and tedious. Rest of the boss fights are predictable and once you've learned the tricks it doesn't really change.

      I used to PvE a lot on my cleric just for the sake of fun. I did enjoy Tiamat's Hideout NM and HM and running along with the templar who was kiting the adds. I also did solo and duo lots of older instances (Rentus Base, Raksha and Dark Poeta) for the sake of challenge and better chances for loot. This was when level cap was 60. Runadium and Katalamize used to be quite hard before nerfs and the gear from there used to be really good. I still remember our first Hyperion kill being quite euphoric because we killed it with something like 5 seconds left in timer. :) I think it was epic because it was quite early in the 4.x patch and everyone were still using Kahrun and TF gear. Makarna was also quite fun instance for some months before 5.0 era.

      Arkhal, Kroban and Library never gave similar vibes for me. Glitches and bugs are still quite common in those and they cause majority of the wipes. Ele Lab and Adma are just "entry level instances" and not even worth mentioning. Garden of Knowledge got beautiful scenery and design but the boss fights aren't that memorable nor fun.

      So yeah, for me the only source of joy left is the PvP. :) And even there I get enough of that "glorious" PvE.

      p.s.
      Thinking about now even "good old PvE times" got some bullnyerk stuff like the legion quest for Muada... And what about SWB. Most of us have been grinding it for 2+ years. Then there was some weird instances like Rune Shield Tower and Jormugand's Bridge that were fun to do few times then everyone forgot about them.
    • I have read everything.
      The only thing I can say: PvE instances are too challenging and difficult for this community. Ppl both from lfg and friendlist arent capable to complete instance. It requires too much skill, coordination and even setup-demanding (who needs temp for Kroban when you need to dps hard there? Maybe some top group is capable to carry you as templar, but not rest 90% of groups). Gok - I have never been here cause too much wasting of time. We need instances like Adred last boss rush - 15mins run for some manastones+500 spinels+50supps. Short instances with indeed NEEDED reward, not pointless pve gear that isnt much better than 65 old pve gear.
    • Ashurrr wrote:

      I'd say the main problem with PVE now is that gear is much worse that what we had in previous patches, yet instances require alot more efford and time.
      That is true only to some degree.

      Adma and Elemental - fun to speedrun with friends or do Hero Trial, gear is practically useless, would be much better if Holy Upgrade Serum and All-Powerful Enchantment Stone drops could be looted by everyone once instead of being a roll item.

      Arkhal - gear is pretty outdated at this point. Can be fun with a good group tho and can be sort of efficient in terms of Holy Upgrade Serum and All-Powerful Enchantment Stone drops and would turn into "pretty great" if those could be looted by everyone once instead of being a roll item.

      Library - has best in slot DPS shield for clerics and a few other potentialy useful items, altho it really depends on the personal perspective. Since upgrading items from prorotypes doesen't require alot of Starlight it's also realistic for players who need the gear. Drop rates of upgraded items still feel far too low.

      Kroban - items are comparable to med tier openworld ones in stats, but they are being dragged down by lack of skillboosts and variable stats, not being able to use Re-attributing scrolls isn't helping the cause. The worst part is probably the fact that you aren't even guaranteed to walk away with any sort of loot as there's only roughly a 50% chance of players obtaining an Equipment Box from the spoils chest.

      Garden - weapons are great for combined slots for certain classes, accessories are best in slot and have useful skillboost. The downsides are the abyssmal droprates for upgraded pieces and the low amount of profit, if any, made from completing the instance considering the time and effort expended.

      Ashurrr wrote:

      For example some GG mount could drop from Piton or Kroban
      Would be nice, as of this moment ~120 solo runs of Rentus and 10 solo runs of TF dry of a mount. Never got lucky outrolling people's alts on the Sharptooth. Still rocking my 10.8 speed Blue Surfrider I got on the day when the mount update went live.

      Ashurrr wrote:

      Now with 5.6 coming, we're getting Narakari
      I'm not sure I would exactly use the phrase "comming now" for something that is likely more than 7 months away. My suggestions shouldn't be that difficult or time-consuming to implement and we could be enjoying them for quite some time before 5.6 comes.

      Cinerea wrote:

      Nobody cares about PvE in Aion because it's boring. There I wrote it.
      You exaggerated there by saying "nobody" but it does hold true for some players. To each their own I guess. Altho i feel like most players who don't want to do PvE only don't want to because (current endgame) PvE simply doesen't make enough money or progress in gear or leveling progress. Now if that were to change and PvE became worthy profit given the time invested and an efficent way of gaining experience I'm sure they would reconsider. I mean just look at what Oneawesomesm said...

      Oneawesomesm wrote:

      I really enjoyed PvE, but as Katyes is saying, it's just not rewarding anymore and it feels like a big waste of time.
      Would be great if there were some incentives to make PvE a thing worth doing again.
      I mean, c'mon...

      Desperation wrote:

      PvE instances are too challenging and difficult for this community.
      Yes and no. The mechanics themselves are simple enough for the majority of players to learn. The real problem is the minimum requirements to play the game got ramped up to "having access to voicechat and being able to use it". Not so much Kroban as you can tell what skills are being cast simply by listening to ingame sounds and looking at the bosses animations, but it definitely does apply to Garden.

      Spoiler, contains specific information about boss fight mechanics in Kroban's Burning Home, don't view if you want to figure things out by yourself.
      Display Spoiler
      Artefact Guardian Kroban has distinct animations for Rift of Wrath (lava), Dark Mist (fear) and Portal Rift (adds spawn). Additionally the support classes can read what skills are being used from the tank's bar.


      In Garden voicechat is of paramount importance. Sadly the need for voicechat automatically excludes all the socially anxious and shy people, everyone without a working microphone, everyone unable to use their microphone because of their living arrangements, and all the men pretending to be women online or vice versa. Then there's the people who aren't that tech-savvy and could encounter issues installing voicechat programmes or setting them up to work properly.

      Spoiler, contains specific information about boss fight mechanics in Garden of Knowledge, don't view if you want to figure things out by yourself.
      Display Spoiler
      The biggest problems are the skills "Calamity Flame" and "Poisonous Fountains" in conjunction with server lagg. When those skills are used, the Flaming Piton and Poisonous Piton respectively target a player in the group as the skill is cast. Unfortunately due to laggy servers, they often skip to the next target instantly after starting the cast (by instantly i mean within a 0.2 seconds or so timeframe from starting the cast making it look like the skill had been cast on another player). However as these skills are the two most important ones not to miss (one spawns flaming circles on target location and the other is the only means of removing them from the boss arena) it's nearly impossible to do without voicechat. Now this all could be avoided by simply using the visual channel instead of voice, automatically displaying an "orange flame icon" above-, a small circle filled with "flames" around- or an orange *text message in the middle of the screen of the targeted player to associate with Calamity Flame and a "green posionous drop icon", a small circle filed with "poisonous goop" around- or a green *text message in the middle of the screen of the targeted player to associate with Poisonous Fountains with the targeted player as soon as the skill is cast - this would not only eliminate the need for voicechat but also transcend any language barriers (a good example would be the protective circle around the friendly Jotun on the second stage of the fight, intuitive, easy to spot and it works; *text message in the middle of the screen as seen in Rift of Oblivion boss fight recently, but reading takes time, which is fine in RoO as you are frozen for the 4 seconds anyways, but in Garden you don't have such a luxury so that should be kept as a backup option incase for some reason the other two couldn't be implemented).


      Desperation wrote:

      who needs temp for Kroban when you need to dps hard there?
      Templars can DPS hard, Clerics can DPS hard, even Chanters with VOI vision (full support) can DPS hard.

      Advice for Desperation (and other templars in general who want to "DPS hard")
      Display Spoiler
      From what I've seen in your YT your rotations are fine, so if you feel like you aren't doing "hard DPS" the only reason I could think of to be causing that is lack of proper PvE gear. It really doesen't cost much to build as physical class (200-300kk entire armor with manastones and Alleph, Ved etc. accessory - prices based on Deyla). Try picking up openworld +2 skill armor pieces, enchant atleast +10, and accesories for useful DPS skills, you can keep using old SWB pieces +15 in any remaining other slots if you have them still. Socket Power 5 into 1 piece, crit 17/ atk 2 in the rest. As for weapon, you can stick to using your current main. Ideally you would want Bygone with Steadfast Apollon combine, that can later be replaced with Narkali's combine but that kind of gear might be a tad too expensive unless farmed yourself. Adjust CP for PvE properly - investing into Air Charge, skills that lower enemy physical defence, and spammable DPS skills, 0 Health, 0 Power, Accuracy only enough to reach 1400 Crit strike with chanter buffs, no transformation, no PvE defence. Doing all that should allow you to reach "hard DPS". As for convincing other players that you have indeed reached "hard DPS" as templar, that's going to be more difficult.


      Overall PvE does take a bit of patience to learn and I wish I could tell you it's worth it to do so, but it really isn't at this point in time. I am hoping the thread does get forwarded so we atleast have a chance of changing some of these things.
    • If I could upvote those suggestions three times, I'd make another account to vote another three times. PvE isn't rewarding these days and while I heavily enjoy it due to pveranks, the rewards are bad these days. Sure, with a proper party, you can clear Adma Ruins and Elemental Lab eight times within an hour and you're bound to drop an APES at some point - but that's really barely enough.

      Cinerea wrote:

      so long and tedious
      Vasharti used to take longer in 3.0 than Piton does these days. And that fight was even more buggy. A proper group can do the boss fight faster than we did Runadium in the beginning, and that fight runs on a 15 minute clock.


      Desperation wrote:

      who needs temp for Kroban when you need to dps hard there

      Templars are better off than Aethertechs and maybe even Rangers, though. In the end, player and gear trump class.
    • Erufuun wrote:

      Vasharti used to take longer in 3.0 than Piton does these days. And that fight was even more buggy. A proper group can do the boss fight faster than we did Runadium in the beginning, and that fight runs on a 15 minute clock.
      I haven't tried Piton for long time so I can't tell really. Last time I was doing Piton it usually took 30-45 minutes to kill it. But it used to be that you need a good geared and experienced premade to kill it. It was impossible to pug. I can imagine if you got good players with high dps it doesn't take that long. But if you don't have that good premade, you're stuck with long instance runs.

      @Trubbish
      I already corrected myself and admitted it's just my own opinion. I don't find the PvE in Aion challenging enough and bad drop rates/useless gear aren't really helping my motivation.
      I also do agree that PvE requires some changes in order to make it worth your time. However, what we got instead was some loot changes for Luna boxes... :P
    • A significant xp boost in instances will increase interest. And by significant I mean at least 7-8 kk per mob without any xp boosters in a grp of 6.
      We still don't have that many 75s that would loose interest.
      I like all suggestions as I do enjoy pve but it seems now it's almost as difficult to gear up for pve as it is for pvp...doesn't make much sense to me as most people that enjoy pve do so cus of third party programs/sites that lets them see how they did compared to others.
      Remove arm and pveranks and who would really "enjoy" these instances?
    • I'll make it short:

      Nice suggestions, I agree that at least the "final" bosses in instances need a boost in drops.
      As for GoK "rushes": really nice to farm quick Kinah, also since the Daeva care we see quite frequently apes and hus dropping. Yesterday we even had 1 apes and 1 HUS in 1 run!

      For me (my group) we actually do pve to chill and smalltalk and chitchat, DPS Meter are not important, but aiDPS is always running nonetheless. We kill Piton not often, we did maybe 2-3 times for the sake of having that done, but it's not really worth spending that long time and it's also killing my nerves.

      With a drop boost as suggested there would at least be some reason to even think about trying it again xD

      Ok not so short.

      PS: boost lowbie instances like Ele Lab and that other thing aswell for our lower level players that can't run LoK and GoK for Kinah!
    • Cinerea wrote:

      I haven't tried Piton for long time so I can't tell really. Last time I was doing Piton it usually took 30-45 minutes to kill it. But it used to be that you need a good geared and experienced premade to kill it. It was impossible to pug. I can imagine if you got good players with high dps it doesn't take that long. But if you don't have that good premade, you're stuck with long instance runs.
      The average group of level 73 players is able to do a full run (from what I have seen) in around 40-45 minutes more or less these days. Can still stretch to 60+ if things go wrong or be as short 25 or less on a good day.

      Sadly it is still impossible to pug. Maybe if you're missing just one person and there's people online who you know they know what to do and are willing to join.

      Gzus wrote:

      A significant xp boost in instances will increase interest. And by significant I mean at least 7-8 kk per mob without any xp boosters in a grp of 6.
      I do agree an increase in experience should be provided, but I believe that it should come in the form of additional experience amulets rather rather than base experience. It wouldn't be fair if running PvE instances became the only way to level, but they should offer an efficient boost to the player's overall leveling rates instead of being a waste of time.

      The base experience boost is not a bad idea tho. I just feel it would be much better if applied to openworld monsters instead, as it would encourage players to farm more.

      That way everyone would have a reason to both run instances and farm in openworld. Or atleast those two things would be less inefficient compared to buying RoO and Kumuki reset scrolls with real money. Not to mention the positive effect it would have on the ingame economy as it would provide sufficient instance and openworld drop items for players who wish to gear up PvE wise and a steady form of profit for the rest.

      Click wrote:

      also since the Daeva care we see quite frequently apes and hus dropping
      It is something.

      Well let's have a look at the caluclations.

      Note: The calculations depend on how these droprates were implemented.

      So let's assume the best case scenario and say there's a 20% chance of obtaining something (either the Holy Upgrade Serum or the All-Powerful Enchantment Stone) for every boss.

      By deafault there's 6 High-Daeva instances.

      Elemental Lord's Laboratory: 2 entries, 3 bosses - 6 drop chances
      Adma Ruins: 2 entries, 3 bosses - 6 drop chances
      Arkhal's Hidden Space: 3 entries, 1 boss - 3 drop chances
      Library of Knowledge: 4 entries, 3 bosses - 12 drop chances
      Kroban Base: 3 entries, 2 bosses - 6 drop chances
      Garden of Knowledge 4 entries, 3 bosses - 12 drop chances

      Provided you successfully complete every single instance entry avaliable for the week.

      There are 6 players rolling on the items.

      So that would mean the average amount of items is (drum roll please):

      45 (drop chances) / 5 (chances of obtaining something) / 6 (players in the group and provided they share evenly) = 1.5 (items per person every week) or 0.75 with option C*.

      Now on paper that seems decent, but when you take into account barely anyone completes even half of those instance entries every week, and when you then also consider the fact that it's most likely not an independent 10% chance of the serum and ape but most likely instead implemented via drop table with a 10% chance roll that then either results in serum or ape we get down to 0.35 items per person every week.

      So pretty much what, 1 item a month maybe?

      Well now that this actually got brought up, if any Gameforge staff who already knows or is able to aquire the info happens to read this, would you be so kind as to shed some light into how the Daeva Incentives additional Holy Upgrade Serum and All-Powerful Enchantment Stone drop chances are implemented.

      Is it A - 10% independent chance of APE + 10% independent chance of serum, making a total chance of 20% of receiving "something",

      or is it B - 9% exclusive chances of APE + 10% exclusive chances of serum, making a total chance of 19% of receiving "something" as the roll on APE gets "excluded" if it already distributed a serum or vice versa depending which one is checked first.

      or C* - 10% chance of rolling onto a special droptable that has a 50:50 chance of resulting in either APE or serum.

      Now let's compare that to changing the mechanics as I've suggested in the initial post.

      45 (drop chances) / 10 (chances of obtaining something) / 1 (as every player in the group can loot the item when it drops) = 4.5 (items per person every week) or 2.25 with option C*

      So from 1 item a month maybe worst case scenario we would then be to a sitting pretty at a steady 2 items a month worst case scenario. Also there would no longer be a need to worry about loot distribution as every group member would automatically have an even share.

      Click wrote:

      PS: boost lowbie instances like Ele Lab and that other thing aswell for our lower level players that can't run LoK and GoK for Kinah!
      You should provide some ideas of how to "boost" those. Library already sort of has the Book of Life but that only really helps if your group is also able to complete Garden of Knowledge.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Trubbish: Spellcheck. ().

    • ^ Totally agree on the group loot for apes/serums. Might justify pugging for lower end instances (adma/ele) and actually trying to learn the others' mechanics.

      Open world mobs xp boost will never happen as to "discourage bots". Kind of f...s the rest of us that actually enjoy a good grind as a daily form of game time.

      Lots of slackers in pve instances make me wanna stay away from randoms especially when the outcome is most of the time coming out of it empty handed. Unlike open world grinding, instance farming requires full involvement and if I'm gonna focus on something for x amount of time it better result in something.

      Atm open world farming, silly as it sounds, is less rng when it comes to kinah income than going into an instance...and that's depressingly true. Ow provides a somewhat, albeit low, steady kinah income. Whereas instances give jack nyerk most of the times.

      ^Add to that the possibility of people that don't really know their class/role and makes most of us stay away from it.

      If they removed the maze/apollon evolving thingy it might be worth it. Like if the loot was just higher version of the stuff. But with the introduction of prigga, interest for those has gone and with good reason.

      As it is now, Aion instances aren't worth soloing (almost impossible also) and aren't really worth grouping for...which is a pity considering how many there are and all are collecting dust.